Three (Six) Albums with Heirloom's Ben Dameron and Hannah Johnson

Heirloom. From left: Sam Taylor, Hannah Johnson, Ben Dameron, and Tim Ipsen.

The idea of the "Three Albums" project is to ask musicians to pick some albums they want to talk about, with no (or few) other instructions. I tell them they can be any three albums, three they've been listening to, their three favorites of all time, three they don't even like but inspire interesting discussion, whatever.

Today, the three albums project is back for a "double episode" with the co-leaders of the Milwaukee-based quartet Heirloom, guitarist Ben Dameron and drummer Hannah Johnson. Heirloom's debut album, Familiar Beginnings, was released in September on Shifting Paradigm Records with bassist Tim Ipsen and saxophonist Sam Taylor rounding out the quartet.

Since Ben and Hannah were coming off the release of this album when I talked to them, I did suggest that the albums they chose might have been inspirations in at least some small way for that project. We'll alternate Ben and Hannah's choices to keep things unpredictable.

Hannah's first album: Sergio Mendes - Brasileiro

HJ: An automatic cure for depression. The group vocals, call and response, percussive lyrics, joyful + longing melodies, all give me an ache to dance. If I could be an inanimate object, I'd be a chocalho or a triangle - unceasing verve, energy, ZEST. Ben's mom's side of the family is Brazilian, so the affinity for the music is in his musical DNA, you'll hear that in some of his compositions on our new Heirloom album (check "Eucalyptus Breeze"). Rhythm and melody are my ride or dies which makes me magnetically attracted to this record.

PD: That first response on the first track really grabs your attention! And I like how it combines these very traditional Brazilian sounds with a very early 90s electric bass and electric piano aesthetic on some of those tracks. Joyful. Ben also suggested an album that has some traditional Brazilian sounds but in a more modern context; do you guys talk about that stuff when getting music together for Heirloom or does it just come naturally?

HJ: We don't necessarily talk about it in relation to Heirloom but we both know that Brazilian music holds a special place in both our musical DNAs. We love to listen to Toots Thielemans' Brasil Project and Hamilton De Holanda when we're on a drive or when I need to bop around the house with night zoomies. The effusiveness of the music seems to transfer to Heirloom, a big part of that being found in Ben's compositional stylings.

Ben's first album: Livro - Caetano Veloso

BD: My all-time childhood album. Packed to the brim with melody, rhythm, rich voice-leading, this album feels like the marriage of the mind and spirit of Brazil.

PD: This album is really interesting in the way it combines traditional Brazilian sounds with more modern (in some cases aggressively modern!) compositional techniques. Have you found that to have a big influence on how you think of your own music?

BD: It's definitely a huge inspiration. I love that with all the embellishments, rhythms, and counterpoint there's still a core melody that can resonate on a purer level. In that regard, yes, it's influenced me to only pursue complexity so long as it serves a meaningful and heartfelt statement and not itself... always seeking to meld mind and soul together. Honestly, I feel that in your music as well, Paul! [editor's note: Thanks Ben.]

Hannah's second album: Lau Noah - A Dos

HJ: Take your autotune and melodyne and shove it where the sun don't shine, respectfully of course. A duo album that makes you feel like you're third wheeling, in the room, swaying to the sound of wistful honestly.

PD: I'd never heard of Lau Noah but this album is delightful. There's a lot of virtuosic stuff (and some heavy hitters as guests) but there are also, like, lo-fi Sufjan Stevens-y kinds of things. I agree with you about the album's delicacy and intimacy, it's quite something. (Also, the drummer citing an album with no drums! I appreciate it.) But I also love these moments when the album suddenly opens up, like that spot where there's a whole horn section, or the big audience "choir" on the last track. How do you find that an album like this has an impact on the way that you approach playing with other groups that are not necessarily in the same context?

HJ: This album makes me think about intentionality and purpose within my playing. If a tune is lending itself to longing or hope or passion, etc., how can I play the drums in a way that would intensify those feelings? How can I play the drums in a way that would fortify the music to pull a listener into the feeling of falling in love? How do I get that grandiose human connection that happens when an audience choir starts to sing with Lau, but within the context of a jazz quartet? I don't really have an answer to those questions but it's how I'm thinking when I play. This record is so reliant on song form, flow, and affect - it whisks you away with minimal instrumentation. I want to be able to provide that in any context I'm in as a drummer by making effective musical choices that elevate - most of the time that requires me to do less in order to have a bigger impact.

Ben's second album - Kurt Rosenwinkel - The Next Step

BD: I was given a burnt copy of this in 2005, when I was 14. Hearing and trying to replicate the turnaround to "Minor Blues" as a teenager left a lasting eagerness for angular melodies and motifs.

PD: I definitely went through a big Rosenwinkel phase in college, though I was more into Deep Song and The Remedy, albums that came out a few years after this one. [Editor's note: the author, as a college student, made a very memorable trip to Chicago to see Kurt Rosenwinkel's band at the Jazz Showcase, a formative musical experience.] I've always found Rosenwinkel's tunes to be deceptively hard; they're very melodic and sound intuitive, but when you actually try to play them or write them down you realize how tricky they are. Do you find that Kurt is more an influence on you as a composer or guitarist?

BD: His tunes are SO intuitive sounding but harmonically get very tricky to navigate as they often defy typical motion. His playing is angular and fluid like a horn player. Really hard to say which aspect has influenced me more but typically when I get comments on my own playing, they often allude to hearing Kurt's influence: so, perhaps more so the playing side. But that being said, I can hear his playing in his compositions and his compositions in his playing... and often I write in a way that reflects the kind of contours I like to improves... so there's that!

Hannah's third album: Paul Bedal - Cerulean Stars

HJ: When I first got this record, I played it incessantly in my car for months on end and never tired of it. Heads that phrase around original melodies, interplay hits with bass + left-hand piano (my favorite sound on the planet), respect + reciprocity crocheted in and around the band. Every once in a while there will be a wink to tradition like a little nasty McCoy moment that makes you feel like you're being flirted with.

PD: Paul! He was in my first real band, he's on my first two albums. But this album is great, and I love the way that Charles [Rumback, the drummer] sometimes exists on some tracks as an anchor or base on which the rest of the music can bounce off of but on others is more of a catalyst for action. How do you think about your role within the ensemble, especially one that you're the co-leader of?

HJ: Musically, my role can be typical drummy stuff - keep good time, set up hits, keep the form, provide dynamic range, be a backboard for comping + solo ideas, etc. As a leader I'm there to edit, pare things down, beef things up, orchestrate tunes, make final creative choices, book gigs, pay out the band, choose setlists and tunes, your run of the mill band-leading tasks. Ben writes the majority of our tunes so if there's any discord with direction, we work it out from there. There's a lot of trust and compromise that goes into co-leading a group - I'm always learning more effective ways to communicate. In the end I love the music we make, I love the tunes Ben writes, and I believe in the project enough to keep it going because it brings me joy and fills me up! That's a non-negotiable for a band leader, the music has to be healing for them otherwise playing gigs at a financial loss where the band outnumbers the audience wouldn't make any sense.

Ben's third album - Michael Brecker - Two Blocks from the Edge

BD: I discovered Brecker's playing relatively late in life, approaching my mid-30s. This album goes VERY hard. Thoughtful writing channeled through spitfire virtuosity... much like the album's title suggests, every solo inches toward the verge of explosion.

PD: I feel like you know exactly how hard this album is going to go the second you see his sunglasses on the cover. I have found for myself that personally I tend to get more out of listening to musicians who don't play my instrument, like it makes it so you don't focus on the technical aspects of the actual playing and think more about the music instead... What's something that you've learned from listening to Brecker, and what do you listen for when you're listening to non-guitarists in general?

BD: Man that is such a great question. I feel the same way - I take a LOT of inspiration from piano players and saxophonists. The nice thing about my technique style - classical fingerstyle - is that a lot of ideas that sit well on other instruments that are normally very hard to execute with a pick-technique are more tenable when you have your fingers to fluidly translate lines across several strings in quick succession. It's no cake walk but definitely has a higher fluidity potential.

I think because there is often a big technical gap between guitarists and pianists - and that I am the son of two classical pianists - my ego has demanded the standard that I should be able to play in a "purer" way that is not so idiomatic to the guitar. For better and for worse, eh! This all being said, the biggest thing I've learned from Brecker is that fiery runs are okay - contrary to the general critique of mindless shred guitar - so long as they're musical, directional, and contextualized within the feel of the music. Like, sometimes we need to go for it and get shreddy and that's okay!

Many thanks to Hannah and Ben for taking the time to share some inspirations with me! Check out the new Heirloom album Familiar Beginnings on Bandcamp or wherever you get your music.